autochess

[goldilocks]

I am an outsider to the autochess community, but ran across a youtube video and it brought me here. I really don't want to start a flame-war or argument on the subject, and I am only wondering: what is the point of autochess?
I can only think of these reasons:
1. you are making money with it - seems unlikely because it is all done on yahoo (or other free servers)
2. you somehow learn chess from what engines play by watching them
3. you enjoy the "fame" of being a very good chess player
4. you enjoy "beating" people who think they are good at chess
5. you enjoy the idea of tweaking engines/opening books to make your system better

For me, I would sooner spend the time getting better at chess itself!! So, really, what is the appeal of having an engine play for you

[matematiko]

Before spending the time answering your question (because it takes a while to explain), and with all due respect, let me ask you a couple of questions first.

1.- Why do you care about our motives?

2.- Explaining to you, is going to change anything?

For me, I would sooner spend the time getting better at chess itself!! So, really, what is the appeal of having an engine play for you

Yes you can go ahead and do that, but what gives you the right to assume we are not already excellent chess players? That after discovering auto-chess we find human chess playing real boring and not as challenging as auto-playing? Yes, that's right, it is more challenging.

Cheers,

[goldilocks]

1. If you don't want to tell, that is cool , I am only curious at the appeal: playing thousands of games by pressing start and watching an engine play does not seem appealing to me... but there are many things on the internet I do not find appealing or understand!
2. Explaining to me does not change anything, sure, but actually it seems like one of the fundamental questions to any visitor to this forum (What is autochess, how to use autochess and what is the point of autochess? You have the first two covered, and if you don't want to answer my question here, maybe can you add it to your FAQ?)

That after discovering auto-chess we find human chess playing real boring and not as challenging as auto-playing? Yes, that's right, it is more challenging.

Now that is exactly what I am asking about - HOW can it be "more" challenging having an engine play for you? And how can playing by yourself be more boring than watching an engine play over and over? If it is as exciting and challenging as you say, I am not against trying it myself... I don't have an ethical problem with what you are doing here, I just don't understand why you are motivated to do it.

Thanks for the response!

[matematiko]

What it bothers me (again, I need to keep being honest here), is the way the question is asked:

.......having an engine play for you?

Is that all you see or you think is behind auto-chess, an engine and nothing more?

My classic analogy is NASCAR racing, Do you see nothing but engines going around and around the circuit? Of course not, there is a frame and a body and what not that makes the car, there are the skilled drivers right? The mechanics, the guys changing tires and refueling in just few seconds, the sponsors, the beatiful girls ( )....etc.

I will make an explanation of our motives later this evening after I come back from work, this is it for now.

Cheers,

[goldilocks]

Is that all you see or you think is behind auto-chess, an engine and nothing more?

Yes, it is most likely my inexperience with autochess - I am unaware of all the thought, planning, engine/book tweaking, and even programming that goes into it... so, my guess is that the reason you do it is more point 5 - you enjoy the whole process of customizing and running engines and systems for optimal performance... but I will not answer for you! I am still eager to see what you have to say.

For the Nascar example, I see your point BUT there is an inherent difference: if you are playing engine vs. engine then it is a level playing field and I can see how you might tweak the engine to outwit your engine playing opponent... to see who has the best engine/setup (this would be like Nascar: all things pretty much equal, just some refinements on pit crew skill, engines, teams, management, drivers). But playing autochess vs. a human seems like entirely an unlevel playing field. It would be like in Nascar where you have a very powerful engine and your opponents have lawnmower engines... or you have a whole pit crew, and your opponents have to change their own tires. Do you specifically target only autochess opps, or do you think playing humans is fair, enjoyable and worthwhile too? I think the idea of even super-grandmasters vs engines has all but been abandoned now days because engines are just too powerful, so I don't see the point in this.

[il_konte]

i think the answear should be very easy for you,TRY IT yourself,and it will become the most preferite hobby for you.

cheers

[goldilocks]

TRY IT yourself,and it will become the most preferite hobby for you.

Could be true I find just normal chess to be very challenging, time-consuming and entertaining a hobby by itself... and the end of my work is that I might get to play in tournaments and win trophies and prizes... or, worst case, just get better at the actual game, which is why I am asking what this is about - what is the end-goal of autochess play? You won't necessarily get any better at chess - it appears like you get better at trying to work out ways around yahoo security and engine tweaking, but I don't see the ultimate usefulness of such activity. Maybe if you are the actual autochess developer you actually learn some programming skills... then it is a useful hobby!

I think like any community there are likely very dedicated innovators/developers who build the apps, think about how things interface, and then hand off their work to others... and then you get users who do not think at all about this stuff and just run it (i.e. just to get a high rating on an online chess server).

[il_konte]

as matematiko already said to you,how can you if we are or not great chess players?,and autoplaying in my very personal opinion can improve your human playing,and as i now every autochessplayer can beat easily quite most of the of the players in a match human vs human,only because you now whitch its the next move he is gonna a do,so autoplaying will increase incredibly your elo,however there are even cheaters that only do it for the points or as you said for the fame,.

cheers
il_konte

[matematiko]

Sorry I don't have time at the moment for the long answer, but let me just say this for the moment:

The true auto-chess-palyers do not like neither enjoy playing and therefore wining against a human player. We are not cheaters, unfortunally there is a group of people that missuses autochess capabilities. It is those guys that gives us bad reputation but we can not control them.

[goldilocks]

I tried admax's chess cube autochess... quite fun to see the app play, but, yes, I did not like the idea of beating a human with it (so resigned after playing by myself some moves). I can appreciate the skill involved in programming such an engine....

[hermes]

man, i've been digging on this site over an hour now trying to find the download. seems every link is blocked or banned at the host. i want to write opening books catalogs to test my idea for a chess teaching book. this application seems like a fast way for me to test my theories; how do i get a copy of it? thanks.

[matematiko]

man, i've been digging on this site over an hour now trying to find the download. seems every link is blocked or banned at the host. i want to write opening books catalogs to test my idea for a chess teaching book. this application seems like a fast way for me to test my theories; how do i get a copy of it? thanks.

A copy of what?