autochess

[rex.croatorum925]

As u probably all know there are several ways of making a good opening book.

First one is to find good collection of highly rated comp vs comp games played on
as big timer as u can find. These games can easily be found on the net, and my tip is
to search for all freestylers games coz most of them are played with good opening books
and importing that games is surely better than importing lets say 3/0 games from pcc.
My conclusion is that this approach is good but it wont pay off when playing versus
strong players with good opening preparation, coz they will always be a couple of moves
more in the book wich is essential when playin games under 10 mins.

Second approach is to start from regular opening book, lets say fritz 10, dj 10 or takkers..., and to bulid a book from scratch. What i mean by that is that u should analise every single game u play. All games are saved in autosave.cbh so after u play u should go back to first out of book move, and start analising it looking for better moves than ur prog actually played.
If found that move should be entered in opening move as main move to play. Analising a move
should be done at least to 25 depth. This way u will eventually get a move that u wont be able
to found in games played under 3/0 16/0 or 400/40 database that can be found on net.
Sometime u might hav problems analising a games, when ur engine on 10th move is showing
lets say +0.20 score but when following that line on 15th move u get +0.01. If this happens
try going on the beggining of that line and try playin second best move that ur engine show.
If again happens try 3rd and so on. Special attention i make to moves that can result in i call
them "trap" moves. Lets say engine gives on 18 depths +0.20 score, but same move on 25 depth gives -0.30 score. If found that is a game over for ur oponent. I have many moves like
that in my book and i can show some examples, but i would rader keep them for actual play .

What ever approach u chose its up to you. Personally i follow 2nd aproach, maybe much harder but hey there are no easy ways to achive antyhin in life.

cheers

goran

[jason1.methews]

It would very help for we people if you can classify some lines which are good (Killer lines) for black and also same for white....I have killed many 8 cores on PCC with white but black still looking for some killer moves..


I will be back on yahoo with killer moves and my slow computer to killer faster computer. I am and will be the best......


Time for another beer.....


Cheers.....!!!!!!!!

---Sunny

[aks21155]

i have seen u loosing lot of games with manila where ur book was going up to 35 moves but stil loosing so pls donot waste time with book borrow some book from wise men from this forum.any way ur cpu is good .god luck next time

[jason1.methews]

Hi AKS

You know mine CPU is worst....... and wiining only on book strength......Are you really talking about me?

i have seen u loosing lot of games with manila where ur book was going up to 35 moves but stil loosing so pls donot waste time with book borrow some book from wise men from this forum.any way ur cpu is good .god luck next time

[elcriollito]

tks Goran,

it is a pleasure to read from master in this topic

[Moheevi_chess]

As u probably all know there are several ways of making a good opening book.

First one is to find good collection of highly rated comp vs comp games played on
as big timer as u can find. These games can easily be found on the net, and my tip is
to search for all freestylers games coz most of them are played with good opening books
and importing that games is surely better than importing lets say 3/0 games from pcc.
My conclusion is that this approach is good but it wont pay off when playing versus
strong players with good opening preparation, coz they will always be a couple of moves
more in the book wich is essential when playin games under 10 mins.

Second approach is to start from regular opening book, lets say fritz 10, dj 10 or takkers..., and to bulid a book from scratch. What i mean by that is that u should analise every single game u play. All games are saved in autosave.cbh so after u play u should go back to first out of book move, and start analising it looking for better moves than ur prog actually played.
If found that move should be entered in opening move as main move to play. Analising a move
should be done at least to 25 depth. This way u will eventually get a move that u wont be able
to found in games played under 3/0 16/0 or 400/40 database that can be found on net.
Sometime u might hav problems analising a games, when ur engine on 10th move is showing
lets say +0.20 score but when following that line on 15th move u get +0.01. If this happens
try going on the beggining of that line and try playin second best move that ur engine show.
If again happens try 3rd and so on. Special attention i make to moves that can result in i call
them "trap" moves. Lets say engine gives on 18 depths +0.20 score, but same move on 25 depth gives -0.30 score. If found that is a game over for ur oponent. I have many moves like
that in my book and i can show some examples, but i would rader keep them for actual play .

What ever approach u chose its up to you. Personally i follow 2nd aproach, maybe much harder but hey there are no easy ways to achive antyhin in life.

cheers

goran

On your first approach you are wrong. You don't want to put moves that were made in games with higher time controls in a book that you will be using at blitz games. You want to build your book for a specified time. (ex. 3+0, 5+0, 16+0) If your making a book for 3minute +0 games then you will want to only put moves into your book that came from 3min games. A winning line for a long game may not be a winning line for a blitz game because the engine can search more thoroughly for the best move in longer time controls. The engine might miss that move in blitz games due to shorter search time (depth) and could result in a loss.

[neo_the_1]

As u probably all know there are several ways of making a good opening book.

First one is to find good collection of highly rated comp vs comp games played on
as big timer as u can find. These games can easily be found on the net, and my tip is
to search for all freestylers games coz most of them are played with good opening books
and importing that games is surely better than importing lets say 3/0 games from pcc.
My conclusion is that this approach is good but it wont pay off when playing versus
strong players with good opening preparation, coz they will always be a couple of moves
more in the book wich is essential when playin games under 10 mins.

Second approach is to start from regular opening book, lets say fritz 10, dj 10 or takkers..., and to bulid a book from scratch. What i mean by that is that u should analise every single game u play. All games are saved in autosave.cbh so after u play u should go back to first out of book move, and start analising it looking for better moves than ur prog actually played.
If found that move should be entered in opening move as main move to play. Analising a move
should be done at least to 25 depth. This way u will eventually get a move that u wont be able
to found in games played under 3/0 16/0 or 400/40 database that can be found on net.
Sometime u might hav problems analising a games, when ur engine on 10th move is showing
lets say +0.20 score but when following that line on 15th move u get +0.01. If this happens
try going on the beggining of that line and try playin second best move that ur engine show.
If again happens try 3rd and so on. Special attention i make to moves that can result in i call
them "trap" moves. Lets say engine gives on 18 depths +0.20 score, but same move on 25 depth gives -0.30 score. If found that is a game over for ur oponent. I have many moves like
that in my book and i can show some examples, but i would rader keep them for actual play .

What ever approach u chose its up to you. Personally i follow 2nd aproach, maybe much harder but hey there are no easy ways to achive antyhin in life.

cheers

goran

On your first approach you are wrong. You don't want to put moves that were made in games with higher time controls in a book that you will be using at blitz games. You want to build your book for a specified time. (ex. 3+0, 5+0, 16+0) If your making a book for 3minute +0 games then you will want to only put moves into your book that came from 3min games. A winning line for a long game may not be a winning line for a blitz game because the engine can search more thoroughly for the best move in longer time controls. The engine might miss that move in blitz games due to shorter search time (depth) and could result in a loss.

I am sorry to comment on your quote mohevee...but I could not stop myself....in my opininon..longer time control games have good depth...and we are using that games only to get a good killing move....so just a simple logic ....in 3 min game one player is using a winning line of depth more than 25 which he got from longer time control and the other player who has blitz games ...just guess what depth should be of his winning line???
So use longer time control games to get killer moves....make your own book...try and try and try....I dont think blitz games could be of help when you want to get on the top.
I hv hd lot of experience with that friend.
You can just try on your own.You make a book from blitz game and make a book from longer time games...and play and see what happens....
Bottom line is...with longer time controls u can get killer moves....but you should know how to take advantage of it.
Peace.........

[elcriollito]

I agree with neo_the_1
the deep of the move is what make the differency here,

this is a good point of reference about what kind of move we whant to collect for our opening books

Thanks to bring this to the table Neo

[Moheevi_chess]

I've made my own book...been playing with it for about a week and a half. My best rating achieved so far is 2860s on playchess server at 3m+0 games. Using moves from a longer game for a book makes you weak on blitz, because the engine doesn't have the time to get high depth. A engine might see a winning line at a depth of 28 but not at 18 (my ply on playchess). If the engine misses the killer move it has just missed the win! Taking moves from 3m games provides killing moves that can be found at a lower depth.

[dene]

This is true actually, you can make a blitz book thats very strong at timers like 3/0, but not so great on longer time controls. I have a book I made myself which I only use for 3/0 games on playchess.com, this keeps me usually between 2800 and 2900 on there. If I play this book at 16/0 its not so great, so I made another book for these longer games (the same one I use on yahoo chess for 10/0 games).

To back this up, Heres a quote from kevin frayer:

"Tour Book 14.0z is primarily a blitz book tuned for 3-0 time controls. However it does quite well at 1-0 and 5-0 times. At 16-0 it will begin to show some weakness. It is made from games that are mostly 3-0 and 5-0 times.
It is my thinking that engine opening books should be made time and engine specific. I brake the time controls for books down like this; one book for 3-0 one for 16-0 and one for 30+ times."

[Moheevi_chess]

Thank you dene. What's your nick on playchess.com?

[dene]

master_yoda ...although I havnt played there much the last few months. Used to play there a lot more frequently when I first built my quad!

[Moheevi_chess]

Alright come play me sometime...Moheevi_chess1 is what nick I'm using right now.